Cesare

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driftwood: codenamecesare: fuckyeahfanficflamingo: [HOW DO I (Fanfic Flamingo)... →

eyebrowofdoom:

[Excerpted from eyebrowofdoom’s full post]

I think the gift economy of fandom goes both ways: the fanworks are a gratuitous gift that cannot be demanded from a place of entitlement; but a positive audience response is also a gratuitous gift that cannot be demanded from a place of entitlement.

I don’t feel entitled to a positive audience response. I do feel entitled to be treated like a fellow person, and not like a fic-dispensing machine that will refund a kudos in recompense for the unliked portion of a story.

I think a gift economy is diminished when readers treat their feedback as a payment to the fan creator for a satisfactory fanwork, to be withdrawn when a fanwork disappoints, rather than readers treating their feedback as a way of participating in the fandom community. I thought we were trying to create connections, not transactions.

Again, a kudos is a single mouse click. In terms of effort, it’s the equivalent of a smile. “I wish I could take back that smile!” makes it clearer, possibly, why I see wanting to un-kudos as an ungracious sentiment.

It’s true there are circumstances, like a story being offensive, where graciousness isn’t deserved. But the Flamingo at hand referred to “that awkward moment” not “that offended moment.” And recent Flamingos variously complained about WIPs updating too slowly or developing in ways that disappointed readers, stories being OOC, stories featuring too much sex or too little sex. That’s the context that made me feel the “un-kudos” Flamingo was about the reader seeing their kudos as dropping a quarter into a busker’s cup and not getting their two bits worth, and wanting it back.

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fuckyeahfanficflamingo:

[HOW DO I (Fanfic Flamingo) UN-KUDOS A FIC?]

That awkward moment.

I’m boggled by the idea that someone wishes they could take back their SINGLE BUTTON CLICK which cost them nothing, the tiniest possible gesture that let the author know their work was appreciated. Why? Because later something happened in the story they didn’t like? So?

All a Kudos means is that you got enough enjoyment out of a story/fanwork to click a button. No one thinks a Kudos means you must love every word and particle of the story, just that you enjoyed something in it and you wanted to say “Thanks for writing that part I liked!” through the tiny gesture of flexing a single finger.

Between AO3 and kinkmemes, it’s easier than ever to be a reader in fandom. You don’t have to go out hunting for every fic, finding individual writers’ websites or newsgroups or Yahoo! groups or Livejournal communities; there’s tons of fic all in one place. You can prompt exactly the story you want to read on a kinkmeme, and have a decent chance that the story will be written to your specifications. That’s great! But I wonder if it’s inculcating a consumer, rather than a participant, mentality in readers. The excitement of “Someone wrote a story about my current favorite characters/world!” becomes “Well, someone wrote a story about my current favorite characters/world, but it doesn’t have my very most favorite tropes or kinks, and it doesn’t exhibit a professional-level quality of prose and proofreading, so I guess I’ll condescend to read it, but I wish I could take back that button-press gesture of appreciation I made. I mean, it’s not like I have an infinite amount of button-presses in me! I have to save those up for the stories that are 100% perfect.”

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fuckyeahfanficflamingo:

[DECLARATION OF LOVE HAPPENED (Fanfic Flamingo) OTP SUDDENLY UNABLE TO REFER/SPEAK TO EACH OTHER WITHOUT USING THE PHRASE “MY LOVE”]

love it also when everybody starts speaking in proper English or Shakespearean. Instant back button.

Is it just me, or has the Flamingo been skewing toward sour remarks from readers lately, harping on things they don’t like? It’s kind of a downer.

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fuckyeahfanficflamingo: [write without music - too boring - search distractions (Fanfic Flamingo) write with music - cannot focus] Coffitivity - Increase Your Creativity with ambient white noise! Relaxing rain audio for work, play and sleep CODING.FM calm.com Rainy Mood 10 Hours Campfire - Relaxing Ambient Sounds 10 Hours - Fireplace (Relaxing Ambient Sounds for relaxation and sleep)

fuckyeahfanficflamingo:

[write without music - too boring - search distractions (Fanfic Flamingo) write with music - cannot focus]

Coffitivity - Increase Your Creativity with ambient white noise!

Relaxing rain audio for work, play and sleep

CODING.FM

calm.com

Rainy Mood

10 Hours Campfire - Relaxing Ambient Sounds

10 Hours - Fireplace (Relaxing Ambient Sounds for relaxation and sleep)

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fuckyeahfanficflamingo: [LIKE STORY, WANT TO REVIEW (Fanfic Falmingo) AUTHOR BEGS AND BRIBES FOR REVIEWS, NO LONGER WANT TO REVIEW] Sadly apropos that recent post on Reviews And Author Responses. Remember, authors, answer all reader comments or else people will think you don’t care about feedback! But don’t “beg” or “bribe” for comments or people will think you care too much about feedback! -____________-

fuckyeahfanficflamingo:

[LIKE STORY, WANT TO REVIEW (Fanfic Falmingo) AUTHOR BEGS AND BRIBES FOR REVIEWS, NO LONGER WANT TO REVIEW]

Sadly apropos that recent post on Reviews And Author Responses. Remember, authors, answer all reader comments or else people will think you don’t care about feedback!

But don’t “beg” or “bribe” for comments or people will think you care too much about feedback!

-____________-

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helens78: fuckyeahfanficflamingo: [GET HIT BY NEW NEW WONDERFUL IDEA (Fanfic Flamingo) LOOK WITH DISMAY AT YOUR PILE OF PENDINGS TO WRITE] Oh, if I only were able to write everything I want to… GPOY. ;_; ;_;

helens78:

fuckyeahfanficflamingo:

[GET HIT BY NEW NEW WONDERFUL IDEA (Fanfic Flamingo) LOOK WITH DISMAY AT YOUR PILE OF PENDINGS TO WRITE]

Oh, if I only were able to write everything I want to…

GPOY. ;_;

;_;

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fuckyeahfanficflamingo: [START A SMALL AU ONESHOT (Fanfic Flamingo) EXPAND INTO A FULLY DEVELOPED ‘VERSE WITH A MULTI-CHAPTER FIC AND TEN SIDE STORIES] Pretty much…

fuckyeahfanficflamingo:

[START A SMALL AU ONESHOT (Fanfic Flamingo) EXPAND INTO A FULLY DEVELOPED ‘VERSE WITH A MULTI-CHAPTER FIC AND TEN SIDE STORIES]

Pretty much…

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helens78: fuckyeahfanficflamingo: [WHAT IF X HAD BEEN - (Fanfic Flamingo) NO.] I think you just eliminated all AUs, all fanfiction, and all fiction, flamingo submitter. What the heck are you talking about? Yeah, what the fuck, why a Fanfic Flamingo that denies the entire principle of fanfic? And creativity? Is this some kind of sophisticated avian trolling?

helens78:

fuckyeahfanficflamingo:

[WHAT IF X HAD BEEN - (Fanfic Flamingo) NO.]

I think you just eliminated all AUs, all fanfiction, and all fiction, flamingo submitter. What the heck are you talking about?

Yeah, what the fuck, why a Fanfic Flamingo that denies the entire principle of fanfic? And creativity? Is this some kind of sophisticated avian trolling?

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greedydancer: fuckyeahfanficflamingo: [AUTHOR NEVER ANSWERS COMMENTS (Fanfic Flamingo) STOP LEAVING THEM]  It’s not spiteful, it’s just realizing the author never responds and assuming the author doesn’t want them, since I know some authors don’t. I don’t understand this point of view. There are so many reasons why authors might not respond to comments - no time, would rather produce more than spend precious time responding to feedback, don’t know HOW, don’t want to be perceived to inflate their own comments numbers, social anxiety, etc. - that have nothing to do with not wanting to know that people appreciated their fanworks. If authors didn’t want comments wouldn’t they turn them off? (Granted, that’s assuming they’re posting on a journal.) When I comment, I’m not trying to engage in a converstion with the author. I’m saying “Thank you for taking the time to produce a fanwork that brought me joy.” The author gave me something, I give them something in return, and I never expect that I will be thanked for it. In my mind, they’ve already done their part. That’s just how I function though. Clearly YMMV. +1 I do freelance work now and then, so I go from having gobs of free time to very little when I get a job with a tight deadline. I’m sure I’m not the only one in a situation like this (for students, it would probably be assignment deadlines; stay-at-home moms have kids who need more attention at various times; and for full-time workers— who knows how they find time to write in the first place!) I’d hate to think commenters feel snubbed because writers have RL responsibilities. And I have social anxiety. It fluctuates. Sometimes I’ll feel pretty decent and even gregarious, and answer every comment that hits my inbox. More often I feel awkward about responding. It has nothing to do with the commenters and everything to do with my brain chemistry on whichever particular day. I suppose I could go back and answer comments on the days when I’m “up” but I feel it would be weird for commenters to get replies as much as a month later when I finally have a good day, and I know a lot of people don’t expect answers to comments at all, so the motivation is low. Also, my less-social-anxiety days also tend to be my more-up-in-general days and I try to capitalize on that energy by spending it on writing and RL stuff. I appreciate comments and kudos a lot. I hope my issues don’t obscure that fact.

greedydancer:

fuckyeahfanficflamingo:

[AUTHOR NEVER ANSWERS COMMENTS (Fanfic Flamingo) STOP LEAVING THEM]

 It’s not spiteful, it’s just realizing the author never responds and assuming the author doesn’t want them, since I know some authors don’t.

I don’t understand this point of view. There are so many reasons why authors might not respond to comments - no time, would rather produce more than spend precious time responding to feedback, don’t know HOW, don’t want to be perceived to inflate their own comments numbers, social anxiety, etc. - that have nothing to do with not wanting to know that people appreciated their fanworks. If authors didn’t want comments wouldn’t they turn them off? (Granted, that’s assuming they’re posting on a journal.)

When I comment, I’m not trying to engage in a converstion with the author. I’m saying “Thank you for taking the time to produce a fanwork that brought me joy.” The author gave me something, I give them something in return, and I never expect that I will be thanked for it. In my mind, they’ve already done their part.

That’s just how I function though. Clearly YMMV.

+1

I do freelance work now and then, so I go from having gobs of free time to very little when I get a job with a tight deadline. I’m sure I’m not the only one in a situation like this (for students, it would probably be assignment deadlines; stay-at-home moms have kids who need more attention at various times; and for full-time workers— who knows how they find time to write in the first place!) I’d hate to think commenters feel snubbed because writers have RL responsibilities.

And I have social anxiety. It fluctuates. Sometimes I’ll feel pretty decent and even gregarious, and answer every comment that hits my inbox. More often I feel awkward about responding. It has nothing to do with the commenters and everything to do with my brain chemistry on whichever particular day.

I suppose I could go back and answer comments on the days when I’m “up” but I feel it would be weird for commenters to get replies as much as a month later when I finally have a good day, and I know a lot of people don’t expect answers to comments at all, so the motivation is low. Also, my less-social-anxiety days also tend to be my more-up-in-general days and I try to capitalize on that energy by spending it on writing and RL stuff.

I appreciate comments and kudos a lot. I hope my issues don’t obscure that fact.

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helens78: ravingliberal: fuckyeahfanficflamingo: [CREATE OC (Fanfic Flamingo) WISH PEOPLE WOULD AT LEAST GIVE THE CHARACTER A CHANCE] Our readers have been absolutely wonderful and supportive and downright loving of our OCs. While there are certainly readers out there who hate them, and there are certainly writers out there who self-insert or write Mary Sues, I like to think that most readers will respond positively to an OC who has development and serves a purpose within the story.  This, yes. <3 Ces and I have been really lucky with the Bound and Determined universe.  We’ve worked with characters who existed in canon but who we completely reworked and might as well be OCs (Jason, Amelia) and people who are OCs that we threw in for the purpose of, well, we like that actor and it’s fun to imagine what ey’d be like in this universe (John, Peter Wallace) and it’s been fun to have as much room as we wanted to play around with different relationship dynamics. (Jason remains mind-boggling to me.  He was a complete accident!  I just felt like Erik needed a grounding character to serve a best-friend and sometimes outside-perspective role, and since the original Brotherhood of Mutants was Erik, Pietro and Wanda (for obvious reasons, not available), Toad (not a strong enough personality), and Mastermind… I grabbed Mastermind, since basically no one knows anything about him anyway, but he’s an established canon character with background shared with Erik.  I mean, Jason and Mort were Erik’s high school cohort largely as a joke, because I wanted someone to use the phrase “Brotherhood of Emo Mutants”.  Go figure!) +1! Though did we ever even say that Peter Wallace was “played” by Aidan Gillen? XD Or that our mental Emma Frost is Cate Blanchett or, lately, Charlize Theron?

helens78:

ravingliberal:

fuckyeahfanficflamingo:

[CREATE OC (Fanfic Flamingo) WISH PEOPLE WOULD AT LEAST GIVE THE CHARACTER A CHANCE]

Our readers have been absolutely wonderful and supportive and downright loving of our OCs. While there are certainly readers out there who hate them, and there are certainly writers out there who self-insert or write Mary Sues, I like to think that most readers will respond positively to an OC who has development and serves a purpose within the story. 

This, yes.

<3

Ces and I have been really lucky with the Bound and Determined universe.  We’ve worked with characters who existed in canon but who we completely reworked and might as well be OCs (Jason, Amelia) and people who are OCs that we threw in for the purpose of, well, we like that actor and it’s fun to imagine what ey’d be like in this universe (John, Peter Wallace) and it’s been fun to have as much room as we wanted to play around with different relationship dynamics.

(Jason remains mind-boggling to me.  He was a complete accident!  I just felt like Erik needed a grounding character to serve a best-friend and sometimes outside-perspective role, and since the original Brotherhood of Mutants was Erik, Pietro and Wanda (for obvious reasons, not available), Toad (not a strong enough personality), and Mastermind… I grabbed Mastermind, since basically no one knows anything about him anyway, but he’s an established canon character with background shared with Erik.  I mean, Jason and Mort were Erik’s high school cohort largely as a joke, because I wanted someone to use the phrase “Brotherhood of Emo Mutants”.  Go figure!)

+1! Though did we ever even say that Peter Wallace was “played” by Aidan Gillen? XD Or that our mental Emma Frost is Cate Blanchett or, lately, Charlize Theron?

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